SeAMK tutkii ja kehittää: Hyvinvointia ja matkailumahdollisuuksia Etelä-Pohjanmaan luonnosta – Well-being and tourism opportunities from the nature of South Ostrobothnia

Anna: [00:00:00] Welcome to Listen to Podcast produced by the Wellbeing from Nature Project. In this podcast, we will discuss the themes that rose from the international study visits of that the project arranged in 2022. We hope that this podcast will give you faith in the strengths of your region and innovative ideas on how to develop wellbeing tourism. My name is Anna Rauha. I’m a lecturer at Seinäjoki University of Applied Sciences, as well as the project manager in this project. Before we start the conversation, let me introduce our distinguished guests. With me in our worldwide studio are Francis Muscata and Michael Galea from Gozo, Malta, and Marja-Liisa Pienimäki and Sanna Jyllilä from South Ostrobothnia, Finland.

Anna: Frank is not only a passionate sportsman, but also very active in his local associations. He is, for example, an assistant secretary of Gozo Non-Government Organizations Association, which is part of the local action group. I understood. Michael is a Gozitan [00:01:00] entrepreneur and the vice president of both the Gozo Business Chamber and Gozo Action Group Foundation.

Marja-Liisa owns and runs a holiday village called Sepänniemi. She represents the South Ostrobothnian entrepreneurs in this panel. Marja-Liisa is one of the entrepreneurs who have actively participated in well-being from nature project’s activities. And then finally, Sanna. Sanna is my colleague from Seinäjoki University, a senior lecturer, and an expert in rural tourism.

Anna: A warm welcome to all of you. Dear listener, before we dwell into the themes, and before I give the floor to our guests, let me briefly describe what Wellbeing from Nature Project is all about. This project is an international leader funded project run jointly by Finland, Ireland, and Malta. The main theme of this project has been knowledge exchange in green care and nature induced wellbeing.

Anna: The objective has been to help local micro entrepreneurs find new ways to utilize natural areas for supporting wellness and tourism and to demonstrate health impact [00:02:00] measurement tools. The project has organized study visits to all three countries, which have enabled the exchange of information and ideas to further develop well-being tourism.

Anna: Each country has also had its own national plan, and here in South Ostrobothnia, Finland, the aim has also been to strengthen the capacity of our entrepreneurs to welcome international tourists. In Finland, the project has been carried out in corporation with Seinäjoki University of Applied Sciences and the Finnish Forest Center.

Anna: The feedback from our international visitors in September 2022 highlighted two themes that I would like to discuss with our guests today. Let’s start off by talking about the first theme, the potential of our region as tourism destinations.

Frank and Michael, you gave extremely valuable feedback to the Finns during your visit here in September, and we will come back to that in a second.

Anna: But could you first tell our listener what kind of an experience your visit to Finland was? What was the main thing you remember about your visit here? Shall we start with [00:03:00] Frank?

Frank: Okay. Briefly. I think it was an experience that, that combined you know, natural, pristine beauty with also a lot of

Frank: Cultural insights into an area which for us Gozitans and Maltese is still a bit alien. Huh. And we learned a lot of really revealing things. I mean, the most for me, apart from the, you know, those trekking in the forest and you know, the sleep in the forest, apart from the fair biking, which are all very, you know, ways of connecting with nature, being really in the heart of nature, connecting with the very heart of nature.

Frank: It’s, for me, it was also a spiritual experience. Spiritual experience in the sense that you are so close to nature in a way that recently I have never been, right? Spending, you know, a whole night, the evening in an area where, you know, you feel almost, although there is nobody except us, you feel like there is somebody there,

Frank: So and I think that [00:04:00] experiences like these really connected with the objective of this project, which was really to show the benefits, physical, mental, spiritual benefits of connecting, of engaging with nature. So I think the objective of wellness after all this, this project was called Wellness from Nature.

Frank: And it’s a wellness, a wellbeing on various levels. As I was saying, I was also impressed by the especially the, the sauna culture. I did some research on that and I found that in a place like, you know, Finland, where country like Finland, where you have about 5.5 million. People, am I right?

Frank: Roughly? Yes. There are over 3 million saunas. And it’s amazing. And you remember when we went to that what was it? Sort of like peasant houses, remember that? And there was a sauna and the guy told us that sauna is more than just a place where you go to relax, you know, [00:05:00] and, and you feel like, you know, you feel good.

Frank: It’s also a, a spiritual experience in the sense that for many things, when saunas were in public places it was the place where the mother would go with the child, you know, for the first time to, you know, and where they, you know, they do it regularly and even some people who feel that they are dying, they, they want to go there.

Frank: for their last, as it were, bath. So there’s something really like, it’s like a church, isn’t it? A church, somebody called it a Church of Nature, which for me, I mean these are things that really, for me, were fascinating more than, to be honest, more than physical things, you know what I mean? Which are very, you know, the adrenaline for.

Frank: Fueling. But there yeah, I felt like, you know you, you’re learning something about the culture, which to me, before I came to Finland were totally, you know, it was something that I couldn’t imagine. Doesn’t mean that I know your culture, but yeah, I, I felt something which, which I had never really felt before, but what was also impressive were those, the [00:06:00] houses mar near the, the, the lake, you know, the, I.

Frank: all of us, you know, were really likely, wow, you’re spending a week here. So that is big potential, right? Of course, tourism, you know, I’m not an expert, but I know it’s a multifaceted thing, so you have to talk about accessibility, availability, and all. You know, there are hundreds and one things, but definitely the potential is there and.

Frank: Way of, you know, how to manage it. And of course you need experts there, entrepreneurs who you know, who are, you know, really experts. Yeah. But definitely it was an experience which was unique, I would say. And of course, all you made it possible because you were so helpful and you took us, you know, you thought of the best ways, the best places to go to.

Frank: Oh,

Anna: Thank you. What about you, Michael?

Michael: Yes. I have to continue on the same lines of Frank. Definitely. First of all, thank you for. Inviting us to this podcast. Cause I think it’s going to turn out in a very [00:07:00] interesting discussion. Yes. The, the study work at Seinäjoki, n my opinion, turned to me like a really positive experience.

Michael: Actually. I felt it was like one of my best holidays, first of all, the hospitality that we receive. Anna, your team was like second to none. And also like this podcast, in preparation for this podcast, it like gave me the opportunity to do some research on your region. I learned that you have a region with 18 municipalities, like San is the largest one.

Michael: You have a population of there of around 200,000 plus. And honestly, the potential I saw there, It could be because. I am coming from a totally different region here. We have this here and the sun. We small, we like on the mainland we’re overpopulated hid. There. You have a lot of breathing space. Natural beauty, deforest for me was top ex, a top [00:08:00] experience.

Michael: I have the, I wish I have the opportunity to talk a bit about the forest also like the lakes. I have seen the scene in landscape like they offer you really. A spiritual feeling like Frank well said, which relaxes you and looking forward, I think the tourists, that’s what they are after today. The hustle and bustle of cities are becoming less and less popular and people like the feeling is that people want to go.

Michael: Do vacations in outer space where they can relax, no noise, no confusion basic things. Also, there’s no need of huge luxury. So yes, from that point of view, definitely this was a very positive experience. Some things that I also noticed is that your region is also rich in culture. I remember very clearly we had you, I think Wan had mentioned [00:09:00] the, the, the architect, the famous architect Alva Alto which managed to do very nice project in your region.

Michael: Right now, I’m. I’m remembering about the city library, which was, although it was the last visit of our study holiday it was really an, an experience there. I was amazed with the design of that library and the attendance also. So we could see. Like, not just youngsters and students, but even older people, which that’s very, very positive.

Michael: And also there are locations, which struck me, like the Alto Center, the town hall. So yes. If you had. To group everything. The, the experience was definitely positive and the opportunities and potentials you have in that region, definitely you should not leave them untapped. Michael?

Frank: Yes. Remind me of something also which replace me to the library.

Frank: The way, you know, [00:10:00] you, your concept of the library, which is so totally different to ours and. Had the opportunity to go and visit the Helsinki library. I forgot the name. Or

Anna: the heiny. Yes. 10 o’clock

Frank: to where I actually was staying there. And it was absolutely , mind blowing. And I mean, the, the multi-functionality of it all, you know, it’s, it’s, we, it’s a concept which is, which was totally alien to.

Frank: Absolutely. And, and the architecture. Yeah, the architecture everywhere. I really, you know, was impressed by that, the variety, but also the, you know, the, your famous architect also is absolutely brilliant.

Anna: You, Michael already almost answered my next question. So Michael from your point of view or in your opinion, What are the strengths of our region?

Anna: If I ask you to name, for example, five’s most important strengths, what

Michael: would you? Definitely. First of all, I would like to, to give a short, a very short background for where I come because I think that’s important. For like, My [00:11:00] thoughts that follow. We from, from a very small country, it’s like two islands.

Michael: It’s an archipelago of islands. There is Malta, which is the mainland which is overpopulated. To give you an idea, a Malta, the population is around 1,600 people per square kilometer. And there is Gozo then, which Obviously less populated. It’s one one third, the size of mota with only 35,000 people.

Michael: Tourism there is the main pillar in our country. It’s the main pillar, to be honest, in Gozo like tourism contributes to 27% of the G D P, which is a very important source and the contributor for our economy. So We see tourism as a huge opportunity our, in our country. Cause obviously it creates a, a multiplier effect and all the sectors of the economy I’m not saying they’re tourism dependent, but they’re affected positively with tourism now.

Michael: Yes. In, in your region, [00:12:00] obviously all the strengths are connected to nature, so You have dual wellbeing tourism, which, which is I think a sector that needs to be tapped. Obviously it’s being tapped very well, but there are so many opportunities that one can, can do. For example we had experiences like.

Michael: Cycling, the, the Fed Bike event was a huge experience for us. You have ex you, you have opportunities like wildlife watching or forest experience, or cross-country skiing. You have so many there that I think if one exploits them in the right manner, it’ll be an attraction. Earlier on son mentioned that tourism.

Michael: Mainly there is domestic, obviously. If you market this type of activities where they’re not so common in other localities, definitely you will go, you are going to create An [00:13:00] attraction for, for, for tourists to come. And I think it’ll create huge opportunities. So yes I think from an, from a business point of view, the product offering has to be there.

Michael: It has to be continually improving. And my, my advice to entrepreneurs there is, Their product and their level of service has to continue to improve. And there are opportunities from one, one that can get support. For example, open discussions with Chamber of Commerce, I’m sure Chamber of Commerce there are in a position to help businesses tap more opportunities.

Michael: And another important thing, As regards as strategy, I think a very, very good communication strategy. You know what you have there, but tourists won’t know. So stepping the right communication strategy today will help will help [00:14:00] you as a region promoting it, not just with the Finish region, but also with other locations in Europe.

Michael: So as regard strength. Like to group a bit. What I, I was trying to explain is I think you. A very, very good, efficient train system. So to reach, say, Naoki, although you do not have an airport, it is quite easy. Like we, we took the train from Helsinki to Seinäjoki. It was a very easy ride, enjoyable, who wanted to visit the restaurant, took the opportunity, who wanted to stay listening to music.

Michael: So it was really comfortable, almost like in a room of a hotel. So that’s a very good plus. Obviously you have deforest and nature, which is a super plus. I see. I think if you would like to tap education, tourism, you have your university could be another [00:15:00] source which is very important today. And the, the more time passes is go, like I’m, we’re seeing popularity increasing even.

Michael: a local level here. Education, tourism is becoming very important. Like, and then other things that come to my mind is the clean environment. You have no noise no traffic and pollution. You have open spaces. So these are all, I think, positive strengths that on maybe other markets

Anna: you have worked with local

Anna: Business owners or be local entrepreneurs for quite some time. And I think you’ve also worked on the regional tourism strategy. Am I right? Do you, do you think that our entrepreneurs know how to exploit their strengths or do they see the strengths that Michael

Sanna: was listing here? Well, I think that this Close to nature is so self-evident for us because we have lived here forever and we have we don’t know the actually the, the potential of it, [00:16:00] how it feels from, from the foreigner.

Sanna: So, because the nature is so close all the time, so we don’t know, and we go to sauna many times a week, and, and spend holidays by the lake in the cottages and, and so on. So, so maybe the problem is that we we don’t know how amazing it is for, for the people. Come from abroad and in our tourism strategy, we have taken into account all these matters and we, we try to improve the extension of the tourist seasons and increasing the.

Sanna: Of the year round tourist services and, and also the development of this nature-based products and for, for laser tourists. And also we have now defined these unique selling points. Our area. I think that’s also very important. In Finland, the unique selling points are forest, sauna lake, lake and [00:17:00] so on.

Sanna: But here in our area we have the same things, but also we have defined that our. People here have a very specific nature. If it’s our way or, and our attitude that is also very important here in our area and, and the stories that come from it. And then we have these events, high quality.

Sanna: Relaxed and personal experiences. That, and events and encounters that can face happen here. And then also this this nature. And is it the plains, we called it . What is the correct English version of it? But this l. Is very special here. So these are the things that we try to point to our entrepreneurs that they use this when they market their services and and develop.

Sanna: Their products. So the myth that Michael and Frank were saying, [00:18:00] those are the things that we try to tell our entrepreneurs that they are the things that foreign into it look for really like, yeah.

Anna: Well, Marja-Liisa, you are an entrepreneur. Yeah. Do you want to comment here?

Marja-Liisa: Yes. It’s really like. We have done these things since child, we take them from granted.

Marja-Liisa: We don’t really appreciate that much how, what we have abroad all, all the time around us. So, it really have opened the eyes to see our foreign people experience the things we u have used to do every day, like picking mushrooms or berries from the forest and eat, eat the berries and roll a boat or whatever make a fire.

Marja-Liisa: All the, these things we have done since child and it’s so natural for us. So we. Think it as a product, but now we have to learn to really make it a product for a tourist. Also, this storytelling like, like we had in GOSO and we had in Ireland, this [00:19:00] walking and talking things. It is very nice and that kind of things.

Marja-Liisa: I. Myself wanted to create more that I take a group and work with them and tell, tell stories because we have had very special people living there. And so lots of stories to tell.

Anna: Sounds like a good plan. Yeah. I read the strategy and I, I think it’s said that there’s some challenges like, and, and one, one of the challenge.

Anna: Lack of product is who thinks that we don’t have enough products. So what is the, the actual challenge son or Maria, Lisa,

Marja-Liisa: how to ask money for it. Because like me, I have Rolling Boat since I was a very, very small kid. And now to take money from somebody from that, that you can roll a boat, it’s. It’s not

Marja-Liisa: Something that you think as a business. Yes. I

Sanna: think that’s quite true. Yeah. Yeah. That we can go to the forest with guests and pick berries and take money of it. Yeah.

Anna: [00:20:00] Yeah. Are we too shy? Yeah. Yeah.

Michael: I think these type of tools go really well with visitors. Visitors that. Especially from regions different to yours from European regions also, where they’re living almost in boxes, if you know what I mean.

Michael: And they see these opportunities that you are mentioning here. Obviously with you it comes normal because you have been brought up there and you almost don’t appreciate the opportunities you have, but obvious. When foreigners come to you and want to do these type of tour like forest fruit, picking, hiking, walking, sleeping in a forest,

Frank: picking photos with rangers, like,

Michael: yeah, it’s true.

Michael: It’s like, A joy beyond expression. And I think that if businesses operating into tourism sector focus there, I’m not [00:21:00] saying you, you don’t have, you have, but obviously when you start receiving volume of people, you need to be geared for them. Definitely, definitely. It would. Best form of marketing.

Michael: Okay? You can market your country, your country on social media, and I don’t know where, but from my opinion, the best form of marketing your country is by word of mouth. And like our experience there, we were about 10 people there. Maltese. Even on our way back to our country, everybody had a smile. Nobody said, oh, I wish that experience was better.

Michael: I did. No, everybody had a smile because although you did an effort to, to give us a very good agenda, very good program. But I’m sure that people who know your place and obviously then take the opportunity to do a bit of research will, will experience what I’m saying.

Frank: Given that you know, you Anna and Amara, you work at university [00:22:00] where you, you have such.

Frank: Very good application of technology. One niche market could be sort of the mental, not health health tourism in the sense that, you know, you could not just have people who, who are relaxing, but you can also. Make them realize through your own test, you know, the sort of devices that you have produced that they get this, you know, the feeling of what being relaxed means.

Frank: Huh. And having it scientifically, scientifically demonstrated. So that could be an niche market, you know, a health, mental health, wellness market. And, and, and another, another thing is perhaps yes, being always prepared tourist prepared. So once you start to get us, Michael, A lot of people, then you have to be sure that, you know, you have the sort of services for them in the sense you know, at the end of the day, as you know, tourists would like to feel like, you know, going to a bar or, you know, so you need to have those available and wider range of product, you know, of.[00:23:00]

Frank: Restaurant, you know, doesn’t mean that you don’t have them, but these are things that of course would come. Right. It wouldn’t be that difficult. Another thing which Michael was also referring to is this Yeah. Something else, which is, which have to be careful perhaps about that. In, in, in the case of Gozo, one of the things that perhaps undermines our product is that Malta authorities, tourism authorities tend to advertise, go.

Frank: as a unique venue, but as part, as an extension of mal. And so we have a lot of one day trip. One day tourists sort of, they come in the morning and they leave. So it’s just part of whole thing. So we have to be certain that you advertise south Nia as a. A unique sort of venue and not linking it with Helsinki or with temporary or, you know, I know I was reading about, for example, t it’s a, it’s amazing.

Frank: I was reading about it. Amazing venue, but you have to [00:24:00] be, you know, to stick to your own strengths in a way. I also know that you tend to be very, you know, You have a strong feeling of your own region. One of the, you know, one, you one of 19 readers, and I was reading that you have a really, you know, a strong sense of identity of your own area.

Frank: So I’m sure that you, you would, you know, you would use that sort of a strong identity in order to market your product in the best possible way. because as Michael said, it’s this is a area where, you know, you can really, you know, find a lot of opportunities. And another thing, yes, that’s, I, I had forgotten it, is that the word of mouth, as Michael was saying now, how can you work on that?

Frank: Apart from having more projects, perhaps convincing your own schools secondary schools to have more a Rasmus plus projects because as Michael was saying, a lot of you know, marketing is done through this sort of oral way, you know, word of mouth. So if you have more projects, Come, you know, students coming to your [00:25:00] area, they would go back home and, you know, and, and, and that is very important because and of course as again, Mike was saying, I have to, but I, I want to insist on it.

Frank: It’s that tourists are, many tourists are getting fed up of going to these, you know, big cities where you have to be, you know, careful. You’re always watching your back in a way. You have to catch trains and you have to get subways and, you know, people all around. Whereas the best for me now I’m realizing that, you know, if I were to choose a place where I go on holiday, I would go to a place where you feel relaxed, where you can indulge in your favorite, you know, physical activities where you can be close to nature, where you can observe nature and even there.

Frank: you need people who would be then be able to show you how to make, to exploit your you know, feelings about nature and your observation.

Michael: You think cause I remembered something interesting in line with, with, with what Frank is explaining here. So, [00:26:00] wellbeing tourism is a fact that is on a growth trend.

Michael: An experience that we have experienced in our, on our islands was during covid, like during Covid, when we had the lockdown. So we are two islands. We have Malta, which is overpopulated, and we have Gozo, which is. Let’s say a go in between. We’re not as good as you far from it, but we are much, much, much better than Malta.

Michael: So like you put your mind in this perspective, lockdown people cannot go out. Most of the people in Malta live in small apartments, 80 square meters. Okay, you stay one day, you stay two days, but then week after week, That pigeon hole, you start getting crazy. What happened to Malda? There were people that could afford a second residence, came to Gozo, rented here, a house with a small garden, and [00:27:00] like could live not a normal life because it was several, several restrictions, but at least you have some breathing space.

Michael: And from then on. I think, I strongly think actually people started appreciating the environment much, much more. And like, I think it’s, it’s a very important point here to stress in this discussion. To get you on board, how important and what opportunities you have with your environment there. And obviously you have to take care of it.

Michael: I think we

Anna: experienced very similar things in Finland during covid is I, I I think it was a, like a shock in the beginning, but then people sort of started to search for the lost connection with the nature. Do you agree, za? Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. I think people started to go out more and with the family and.

Anna: Yes. It was a good learn . Yeah. And by the way, Simon moderator, feel free to comment any, any time you want to please go

Marja-Liisa: with our national parks has been very, very [00:28:00] famous because then people learn to go there because there, there was lots of space to be in the nature and. and avoid other people. But then they got crowded.

Sanna: Yes. Also here in Finland where we had crowded national parks. Yeah.

Anna: It’s, it’s, I think it’s a common human nature. See, green, a grass of the other side. I think especially, this is very interesting and important for us to. Yeah, that, that how what our green grass looks like. Would Frank or Michael want to share your views on how we could make the most out of our strengths and opportunities here?

Anna: Where, where should we start?

Michael: In the sense, first of all, where should you start is this, first you have to identify what your weaknesses are, I think, and maybe one of your weaknesses could be the shoulder amounts like Maria was telling us Listen, we work [00:29:00] six months, a year, and six months. We don’t have business.

Michael: So the idea is that you have to put a strategy in place or a number of strategies in place, how. To mitigate these, these, these shoulder demands. I can give you an example of Malta here. Okay. Malta not long ago, Malta tourism was not always good. Malta, not long ago we had Showders go though. We even had.

Michael: Hotels closing in winter for a number of months, exactly the same pattern you have there. So, Malta. What is a country which like targeted mainstream tourism? So it was like sun and sea. You have the forests and you have the wellbeing. Malta, it was always sun and sea. What did we do there to mitigate the

Frank: should

Michael: So what did we do in Malta to mitigate the shoulder months? There were a number [00:30:00] of strategies that were I put in place. For example, first of all Malta, the, the hotels during the winter months started making attractive pricing, so at least they continue operating. They won’t make profit, but continue operating, which get gets you too, if you have.

Michael: A few employees working for you. You can’t, like, you continue, you have enough revenue to pay them, a revenue to, to, to, to, to pay the operating cost and then make money. So that was the start. Secondly, in Malta, we started tapping new niches little by little, and we have niches like language tourism.

Michael: Malta is a huge opportunity here. We we have a lot, a lot of businesses operating in the sector. Then we started tapping wedding tourism. Conferences was a HU is a huge, did a [00:31:00] huge positive impact. Culture tourism, the cruise lining business. So all these type of new niches created opportunities and if you like see, did the way we started tapping New sectors which work in winter, not in summer.

Michael: In summer we didn’t, we don’t need any more volume. Like Malta is a, is a country of 500,000 people and we’re receiving like 2.7 million. Tourists per, obviously gozo is a bit different, but I’m talking about more to, to talk a bit about the bigger picture. Maybe Frankie could, could speak a bit about Gozo now.

Michael: So yes, I think in your case you have to work on a strategy which could be assured medium and the long term plan. You cannot do this overnight. You have Malta took 20. To arrive where we are, but honestly, we managed to mitigate the shorter ones. And [00:32:00] again in your case, what niches would I tap?

Michael: Like if I was there trying to invest in your, in, in your region? I would. Definitely tap the education tourism. So your university, Sani University, you have a great opportunity to start targeting foreign students. Obviously this will create a multiplier effect because if students come to you and have a positive experience, they going to bring family and friends there.

Michael: So, It’s like you’re having a snowball effect. Business will start growing. You have nature skiing festivals. You, you are a region which you are so rich in culture and music. So you have, so you have a lot of. Opportunities. I think to tap, obviously you have to look also at the infrastructure. Okay. From the bit of retail I done, the number of hotels in the region is not huge.

Michael: I don’t know, maybe you have [00:33:00] 20 or 30 hotels. To give you an idea, in Malta I don’t know how many hotels we have, but definitely we have over 80,000 beds. Now. 80,000 beds means 40,000 rooms. In a small country like Malta, I’m not telling you to go there because you will never be dependent on tourism as we are.

Michael: But if you have in mind or the interest, the region has the interest to grow and go more international as opposed to domestic, you have to tap these strategies for

Anna: You, Michael, actually we’ve already started our second theme. Just for our listener. I vividly remember the shock of our visitors when they heard.

Anna: how short our tourist season actually is here. And I Marja-Liisa, as an entrepreneur. How do you see, would there be, like in your business,  could it be possible to keep it open for a longer time?

Marja-Liisa: it is. But there are some, some it’s challenging with the warming. With with the buildings [00:34:00] heating, that is, that is the most expensive thing to do.

Marja-Liisa: On the wintertime. We have many different buildings. It’s better if you have only one building. It’s easy to keep warm. But so I think we need some kind of new house, something that is Easier to be warm all year round. But we have things, what we should and could do on wintertime, like, like fishing on the ice you know, skiing cross country.

Marja-Liisa: And so we have lot of snow and we have many things to do in the forest. Also in winter, if we just make that, that kind of trips like. Walking with snowshoes or whatever. But that, that is one big, big issue is that when it’s silent time and not so, so many tourists, that it’s expensive to keep everything going.

Marja-Liisa: So that’s where we should have lots and lots of tourists, that it’s make it so it’s worth it. , you know,

Anna: Oh, sorry. Yeah. [00:35:00] Would

Sanna: you like to comment something? Yeah. I was just commenting about this short high season because here in Finland, the school schools starts in the big. Beginning of August.

Sanna: So that’s the reason for ending the season. Also because many entrepreneurs, they, they the domestic tourists, they don’t travel anymore. When schools starts. That’s a very big problem here, and we have been trying to do something about it because in the Europe, in the middle Europe, the season is their holiday season.

Sanna: August and we have our companies are closed already, many of them already in August. So that’s the problem to, to provide products and services because the domestic tourists are, are not traveling anymore. So that’s very difficult. And, and then about the costs of the heating and, and so on.

Sanna: So this is very, very, Complicated issue [00:36:00] to solve because we are very depending on domestic tourist also. So that’s why, why, why this is so

Michael: difficult here. But obviously the idea is. To change that. And Maria was mentioning, well prices of electricity are expensive. Obviously your temperatures are well below zero, so you need more energy.

Michael: To, to, to like warm the, the, the, the, the, your, your buildings. But what I, my question is this, is there a tourism organization or tourism association or a tourism authority there? that could understand and delve into these problems because businesses on their own cannot make delay. Businesses need support.

Michael: Businesses needs for needs, for example, subsidies for electricity, like. If Marja-Liisa was paying maybe 50% of the price of [00:37:00] electricity she’s paying now, she would be encouraged to open her business for a longer period of time, and automatically that creates a positive effect because, If I am a foreigner and was thinking to visit your region first, what would I look for?

Michael: Obviously I would need to have where I’m staying comfortable and that you have it. I would need to reach you in a easy manner. Now that is good, but not perfect. Remember that there are regions in Europe to. To, you need to take two trips, two flights. There are no direct flights to, to, to, to, to everywhere.

Michael: And also it could be that in the future you would think of like investing or reopen the airport that. You already have. So you would have the flow, international flow, not just coming in the di from the direction of Helsinki, but [00:38:00] maybe by air, not just by a train or by a car. So I think these are all important factors that one should consider, but definitely, definitely small businesses need support in challenging months here locally.

Michael: The government obviously with using the channel of the tourism authority always supported players in the sector. Today it is less because the industry has grown. We have created a positioning out there, but. in your case, the opportunities are enormous, much, much bigger than the ones we have here.

Michael: And also you have to keep in mind that the trend is there. The trend is that people go to these type of experiences as opposed to the traditional holidays of visiting capital cities and. , I don’t know what would someone like to

Anna: comment there? I, I also read that from the strategy , [00:39:00] that apparently entrepreneurs feel that there should be more, that the, the whole business should be more, or this whole tourism is, is not well coordinated.

Anna: Do you agree with this?

Sanna: We can cut this notes. Yes. Yeah. Okay. . Yeah, I think it’s it has been talking, we have been talking about the coordination very, very long. And, and then these projects try to Improve the capabilities for entrepreneurs and so on. But then we need a strong marketing organization.

Sanna: And that’s one problem here that we about this and this this Tour operators. We don’t have, have them. So the, so we need about this marketing and, and that is a very, very big problem here. Maybe because we have these opportunities and we have products and we have, but, but we don’t have a strong company who is selling them.

Sanna: So that’s, that’s maybe, that’s one thing which which we can do here as in our, in, in the se univers. So we can [00:40:00] only help our entrepreneurs, but then we need need something more also for, for this marketing. What Michael was also talking about,

Anna: as I remember Michael saying in the forest , I remember you just, you have such potential here.

Anna: You just have to know how to market this .

Sanna: Yeah. Yeah. That’s very, that’s very, very big problem here. So we don’t This marketing by word of mouth. That is of, of course, very important. But we also need this we have this product, but, but they are somewhere hidden so the tourists can’t find it.

Sanna: So that’s, that’s, that’s very, very important that we have to get better marketing.

Michael: Son. Have you ever thought of launching an app on a digital app on about the region? What, what, what I want to arrive to like, If I want, if I am a tourist coming to your region, and I would want to know where the hotels, how I can book at a [00:41:00] restaurant, what activities there are in the region.

Michael: Everything. If I want to buy clothes, anything I, I, I’m there. I don’t know. If, if I want to go to church, what time is the mass? Anything? If, if like I’m in, I’m in, I’m. In Sani or in in oban region. And I want information and I don’t want, or I don’t feel like going to ask people, but I have this app and what I ask her, she, it, it re returns back to the information.

Michael: I think that’s, that is a useful tool for visitors and tourists, which has been tested in a lot of cities. with a great success. Even if I want to book a tour, even if I want to go for a tour in the forest, I can book from it even if I want to go on fishing. Anything. Yeah.

Sanna: Yeah. We have this, plenty of these visit sites every.

Sanna: Every municipality and then this Visit site, [00:42:00] which is a marketing site. And then we, we try to use this, of course, this book and, and these other online agencies. And then, then there are many, many ways to, for entrepreneurs to. To market their, their, and sell their products. But then this common app and these portals there many, many times it has been discussed about these things.

Sanna: But then it’s a problem or in, in Finland in general that it’s very diff difficult to find. Find our, our tourism products. So it’s not only in, in our area the problem, but visit Finland, which is this organization that markets Finland to approach. They, they have very many Strategies and, and and different what are they apps that, that entrepreneurs could use Also, now, now there is this data hub, which is a placed where entrepreneurs can bring their products.

Sanna: And then what is this? Can you un help me? [00:43:00] What is ? , for, so, so it’s the, it’s the place where, where the, the information can, can be divided to, to other, other sites and so on. So this, this kind of development is going on and, and that, that needs, that, that entrepreneurs themselves. Give the information about their products and, and also it should be at least in English because that’s one, one problem also, that everything that we market here is in Finnish and, and not, not even in English.

Sanna: And that is the minimum. That should be, that it’s in English. So that’s one, one thing also here, here in, in our area, that’s, that tourist can’t find information in English. Also on progress that we try to .

Anna: Yes, it should be as easy as possible for the visitor to find all the input and information.

Anna: Perhaps,

Frank: which could happen also is that the education system promotes studies in tourism and tourism [00:44:00] management. , is it a popular choice for students? And is, is, is tourism studies as a course popular amongst students in your

Sanna: area? Not very popular in your region? We must say that. Not very popular, and we don’t have they are, they’re own only voluntary studies for tourism ah, at the moment.

Sanna: So that’s the reason in, in our.

Frank: But can you specialize in tourism studies, tourism management, and marketing?

Sanna: Now you can take studies for 20 credits or for tourism. That’s, that’s only, yeah, that’s, yeah. Credits

Frank: you need for a degree for an ma, a masters or a

Sanna: no, no, we don’t have this because

Frank: Yeah, yeah.

Frank: More people know about how to go about it. Although of course, I think experience is very important, but you need to start with some theoretical under things. Right? And then you, okay, you learn from others. And entrepreneurs can also help. But I think even in you know, An entrepreneur would need somebody who [00:45:00] perhaps has some theoretical Yeah.

Frank: Background, so that could also mm-hmm. help to pro promote to, to make people, you know, become more sort of acquire more expertise in, in this area. Yeah. Yeah. But I also, the last, my, my point is also that’s, it’s obviously, as Michael said, that state intervention, in this case, I think it’s necessary. It depends whether your government is more.

Frank: Business or more like big state or small state? I don’t, I don’t have an idea, but in this case, I think it’s worth whatever the political affiliations to, to help. entrepreneurs because as Michael rightly said, an entrepreneur on his own, on her own. I mean, especially when you, when you haven’t really you know you, you are not, you are not running at full speed in terms of tourism develop.

Frank: You need help, you need support. And so mm-hmm. State has to somehow create that sort of support, especially when it comes to. Prices. I remember a time when our, you know, a lot [00:46:00] of the electricity bills were reduced, right? You remember Mike? It was like 25%. So that helped a lot . Mm-hmm. . And, and you know, whereas if you have to, to do everything yourself, then that becomes even more difficult because you don’t feel like you’re being somehow somebody that’s there to prop you out to, you know, someone is behind you to support.

Michael: To close this idea of the app I wanted also to say is this, first of all, I think in today’s day and age, it is a very important tool and also indirectly it could help businesses because, and all because obviously businesses could advertise on this app and the operations of this app could be paid by the hits that people.

Michael: on specific purchases of the business. So I think it has a two-way positive effect. I want to stress that the, the, the, the sector, the tourism sector can only grow with the private sector contributing. The private [00:47:00] sector can only contribute if you work as a team. What Maria can do alone is very little, but if there is a tourism organization that groups all the businesses and.

Michael: The effort is dined jointly, everybody contributes a bit, a bit of ideas, a bit of strategies. The, the, the, definitely the sector will drive and thrive. Faster. Because it’s obvious the strength is in numbers and I think the opportunity is there and it creates a feel good factor if you are deemed and everybody is contributing and adding value to the sector it creates a good factor in the business and business.

Michael: That’s how it operates. If you are a Dell. Person or a negative person, don’t go into the business sector. Just do [00:48:00] another normal job. But if you are positive and you believe in teamwork and you have of obviously to take risks also, then maybe you are in the right sector.

Anna: Very interesting. And, and I hope that Maria, Lisa, you’ve had.

Anna: Is open and

Marja-Liisa: hard. Open and yeah. Yeah. , it’s nice to hear what you said, Michael and

Anna: Frank. You too. Yes. I think we have to sort of start closing this, this session. I have never doubted. The importance of this project. And Marja-Liisa, in, in the seminar we held in December 22, you mentioned something that reassured me that, that this project has been a success.

Anna: You said something about or you mentioned some, something that you have gained in this project. Could you tell our listener what was personally your main gain from this wellbeing, from Nature Project?

Marja-Liisa: Like to make a project from almost everything, like what you, what we have around and we can, we can make a project [00:49:00] from all of it.

Marja-Liisa: And like in Ireland, we visited these places. What were amazing to make a business from their history when they have lack of food, you know, famine

Anna: Village.

Marja-Liisa: Yeah. Famine Village. It was very

Frank: yeah. Yeah, it was amazing.

Marja-Liisa: Yeah. And like we here in Finland, we have a history of war and we have a, so also have very rough times here, so we can also make maybe business from that too, but friendly

Frank: relationships with the Swedes, I guess.

Frank: Yeah.

Michael: very

Marja-Liisa: friendly. Yeah. . Anyway, the idea of, of making like the walk and talk tour. From what we have, we don’t have to build anything about it. We have just to create a project around those things.

Michael: Maria, you mentioned a very important point about your experience in Ireland. It’s a bit, isn’t a person from Ireland here?

Michael: Mm-hmm. . But it is true. Ireland was a super poor country. Super poor country. [00:50:00] and Europe and the government that were governing this country in these last 30 years pushed and supported the businesses with Grants Soft Loans, loans without interests, and people and business people, small business people, took the opportunity.

Michael: Today, look where Ireland is. We experienced a very small part of Ireland, but definitely that that country is an example. How you go from one extreme to another and. Bottom line. That was true. Obviously the motivation of the people, they were like survivors, these people, but also they, they needed the kickstart.

Michael: If you don’t have funds or you cannot source funds, business cannot move on. So this support, they got obviously from Europe, from the uk, but they managed to convert this, this country, Ireland as a [00:51:00] country, enormous. Now, obviously Finland is a totally different country. Finland is a rich country. And obviously you, you, you are not in that situation, but certain the certain niches and certain sectors, like we’re mentioning tourism here, if there is an opportunity.

Michael: You have to go for it. Cause it’s all important that you go international, not remain domestic, in my opinion. Mm-hmm. , what about you

Anna: Frank and Michael? What, what have been the biggest lessons for you during this project? Frank. Frank. Go. You go .

Frank: Yeah. To me the, what I really got was were the insights into.

Frank: you know, the, the psyche, you know, the, the way you go about things. That’s for me, you know, because it’s like okay, everything about your, your natural. You know, I was, I remember impressed by the speaker who said, I remember the first day when we, we had a workshop that’s grown up. Percentage of, in Finland is 3% grown up.

Frank: So you have 97% nature. So that was, I [00:52:00] remember something like, but yeah, my ins the insights I got into, into your, your, you know, finished mindset, your culture. I was also interested, I remember I told you about it the way, you know, your language was first, you know, the spelling started from one, and then you, you were a bit more pragmatic.

Frank: You made it more phonetic. I mean, these are things. Give you an insight into, you know, how you have a practical nature, which reminds me of the English, the English way of thinking, and when it comes, comes also to deletions. English had deletions like German, but at one point they decided, no, it’s, it’s not practical.

Frank: You know? And that happened in the 14th century and you did it in a, you know, shorter period of time. Yeah. These are all, this is, you know, this is what I really got from the. Apart you, you know, my realization of you know, of the fact that we we’re so well received that, you know, you, you get also this feeling of solidarity, you [00:53:00] know, of friendship.

Frank: That is, of course then uppermost. But yeah this is, this is my sort of My game. Let’s put it like this. Yes, thank you.

Anna: And Michael?

Michael: like Frank. My, my experience was positive from beginning to end. Honestly, what amazes me with you people are that you are happy people, you are calm people. Obviously probably because you live in open spaces, not like us, like in has and bael of confusion traffic, , so yes.

Michael: And even like surveys show that you are on the top where, when it comes to wellbeing, where it comes to how the work-life balance and also you’re very educated people. You love culture and you know how to live life. So you have all that credit. To tell you the truth. So [00:54:00] yes, for, for me definitely You are lucky to, to live in this country.

Michael: And also I look forward in the future to revisit again your country. I want to tour a bit more, maybe in the north and a bit more in this south. So yes kudos to that.

Anna: Thank you. You’re really welcome, . Well, I, I want to thank you all. Thank you Mario, Lisa, son of Frank, and Michael for joining this podcast today.

Anna: Thank you for this conversation. Thank you for sharing your views and experiences and expertise. It was a pleasure to have you with me. And I wish our listener and all of us wellbeing from nature. Thank you.